Tracy, a serving police officer, and Ali, a member of the public, sit opposite each other in a dimly-lit interview room. They begin a conversation.

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Ali: I don’t see anyone like me in the police force. 

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I didn’t feel like I would fit in because I didn’t feel like I was masculine enough.

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Tracy: I don’t feel like I fit, I don’t want to fit.

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Ali: Are the police homophobic?

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Tracy: Now I think there is a perception that the police have certain views as a collective,

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but I think it would be unfair to say that the police, you know I’m a police officer.

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I’d say there are times when we may be clumsy and when we don’t get things 100%,

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Let’s unpick it and look why.

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If it’s ignorance and it’s anti something, then we’ll deal with that as well.

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We are very robust in the police around discrimination,

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around racism, homophobia, biphobia, transphobia.

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Ali: Right, so how do the police deal with the LGBTQ community then?

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Tracy: For me, the word community is often something that can be misleading

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I think because LGBTQ people are everywhere, we are part of society,

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we are in amongst the daily world aren’t we?

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But I think engaging with communities is something that’s really important to the police.

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One of our fundamental principles is that you know we are the community and the community are the police.

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And if you don’t see people like me in the police, 

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you’re not going to believe that’s it’s OK to tell the police things are you?

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So for me we have to be that visible person, I have to be that role model,

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I have to be that image, because otherwise if you

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can’t see it, you’re not going to think you can be it, are you?

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Ali: But I don’t see anyone like me in the police force,

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I don’t see that representation there. So do you have any colleagues who are South Asian and gay?

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Tracy: Yeah absolutely.

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I think sometimes some of us don’t necessarily want to be like the poster person for the police

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but you need to see you to think you can be

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part of us as well don’t you? So you need to see that.

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Ali: When I was 16, at that age I didn’t feel like I would fit in because

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I didn’t feel like I was masculine enough in order to be a police officer.

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So again like I said, at that age, especially at that age,seeing someone like myself

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would have made me…Maybe I would have taken a different path.

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Tracy : But I think it’s really interesting that you feel like, as a young lad,

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and you’ve got your identity and who you are, 

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and you’re thinking: ‘I need to fit to be in the police’ 

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and I think that’s maybe where we need to listen to that and go:

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‘why are people feeling they need to fit?’

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this isn’t about…I’ve been in the police 24 years, 

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I don’t feel like I fit, I don’t want to fit. 

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I want to bring me to the table and say:

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‘Listen, these are the skills I’ve got and this is what I’m good at’.

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Ali: So what was it like for you coming out whilst you were working for the police?

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Tracy: Initially, when I first joined the police, I was really conscious of my gender

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more than anything I think. I didn’t really think about my orientation or identity.

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I thought more about being a woman in a man’s world. 

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I wasn’t really out or open for the first few years in the police. 

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Didn’t feel like I could be, if I’m honest.

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And then I kind of just became more aware of other people like me

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and of the support that was available as well.

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Like other networks, you know we have a lot of support 

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mechanisms in the police service and I became aware of that.  

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But yeah went into investigations 

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and I just felt like I found my place. The little girl detective

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then was becoming the big girl detective

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and I felt like how can I expect someone to be honest with me

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about what’s happening to them if I’m not being honest with who I am?

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Ali: How would you describe that feeling of when you did like finally come out? Like, how was it?

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Tracy: I became a better police officer,

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I felt like the police got more from me

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because I wasn’t hiding anything.

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I was in an organisation which is about truth and honesty

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and I was going to gay clubs and hiding if the police came in.

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You know, it was just at work.

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Ali: So you led a double life?

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Tracy: Oh yeah absolutely, absolutely I did. Now I can’t imagine it, I can’t ever imagine it.

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It’s helped me professionally as well, I get victims of crime coming out to me,

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telling me things about themselves because they identify something in me.

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It’s almost having another little skill set as well you know. 

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Tracy: I think career wise I’ve done some things that I probably never ever dreamed possible,

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and I had an experience that probably changed me as a person as much as it did a police officer.

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We ended up with a conviction at court that involved 

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young people as the perpetrators. That was a real highlight for justice I think

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but as a detective I kind of felt,

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this is kind of what I wanted to achieve professionally. 

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And I think when I look back now, I’m hugely proud of

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not only becoming a detective but some of the cases

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I’ve been involved in and some of the lives I’ve been able to influence and change

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and have an impact on.

We see a brief close-up of a whirring tape deck recording the conversation, before cutting to a wide shot of the two people.

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Ali: What’s your necklace about?

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Tracy: This is really special, I was given this back in 2009, 

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when I got my award in Seattle for the International Police Officer of the year.

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I’d spoken to an audience where some police 

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in the audience were working in countries where it’s still illegal to be gay. 

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And a person unknown to me, to this day,

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put a little bag in my hand and passed it to me and said that the speech I’d given had inspired her

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and it’s Joan of Arc, it says on it: ‘I am not afraid, I was born to do this’.

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Just feels like my epitaph if you like, it’s kind of my meaning. 

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Ali: I love that, really got me then.

We see a close-up of the tape machine, clicking as the recording ends.